[Mishmash] (no subject)

[Fred Atkinson]

David, 

    Couldn't argue with that for a minute.  

    Even the Christians have their extremists.  If you don't believe that, then let's talk about David Koresh and Jim Jones just for starters.  

    Regards, 



                                                                                Fred 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Brown 
  To: 'Mishmash' 
  Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [Mishmash] (no subject)


  Fred

   

  I agree overall with one reservation.  Muslim, Christian, Jew, Callithumpian?  I don't think it matters a hoot.  I think (hope?) that most people want to live in peace.  My limited experience is that the Bible and its equivalents basically preach love and good will to others.  It is the extremists that seem to get control of the agenda and selectively quote and mislead gullible people into inhuman acts.  

   

  Regards

   

  David

   

  From: mishmash-bounces at mishmash.net [mailto:mishmash-bounces at mishmash.net] On Behalf Of Fred Atkinson
  Sent: Monday, 5 February 2007 11:11 AM
  To: Mishmash
  Subject: Re: [Mishmash] (no subject)

   

  Well, David, 

   

      As long as there is no tolerance for other cultures, the hatred is going to continue.  And those radical Muslims seem to believe that their way of living should be invoked upon the world and they should rule (demonstrating *their own* lack of tolerance for other cultures).  We saw the results of that in Afghanistan, a complete breakdown of human rights in that country by the Taliban and other extremists.  And it's going on in other nations as well.  

   

      The only people that I can remember that are as ruthless as this were the pre-WWII Japanese.  And you remember what it took to break them.  I pray it doesn't come to that to bring the Muslims into the civilized world.  But it might.  

   

      I wouldn't want to live in a world where men and women are required to live the way Muslim men and women do.  In this country, they have a choice.  If they want to live that way, I do have a problem with it.  But it's still their choice (even though they may be under duress from their family members and other Muslims).  That they really are under duress is the part I have a problem with.  We aren't supposed to be forced to believe (or not believe) what someone else wants us to.  

   

      Wasn't it Prime Minister Howard that told the Muslim extremists (who wanted to live under Islamic law) that Australia was a secular country and if they didn't like that that they should leave immediately (David, can you comment on that?)?  If Prime Minister Howard said that, then I think he should be applauded.  Perhaps we (the U.S.) should tell them that we are basically a Judeo-Christian nation and if they can't respect our right to practice our own religion in our own way, that they should leave.  

   

      I don't hate Muslims.  I actually pity them.  And since the mainstream Muslims here in the U.S. don't have the courage to speak out against the extremists, I very much wonder about them.  There is something very wrong when they don't have the courage to say that there is something wrong with killing innocent people and invoking your religion upon others.  I think The Crusades were proof of that.  They were just as misguided.  

   

      It may be that they are so afraid of retaliation from the extremists that they are afraid to speak out.  But those who signed the Declaration of Independence lost almost all that they had because they had the courage to stand up for what they believed in.  And we should all thank them for that forever.  

   

      Wasn't it Ben Franklin that said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."?  Perhaps the mainstream Muslims should think about that.  Ben Franklin also said, "'Tis a common observation here that our cause is the cause of all mankind, and that we are fighting for their liberty in defending our own.".  

   

      Regards, 

   

   

                                                                                          Fred 

   

   

      

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: David Brown 

    To: 'Mishmash' 

    Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 6:36 PM

    Subject: Re: [Mishmash] (no subject)

     

    Hi Ingrid.

     

    Sadly the world is full of horrible men and, it seems to me anyway, that many of them get into positions of power.  I guess that is one of the traits of ruthlessness.  There is an oft repeated joke here that it would be good if a plane carrying the Government crashed but there are ranks and ranks of clones waiting in the wings to fill the void.

     

    I whole heartedly agree with you about guns.  I don't think killing solves anything.  In fact, looking at history, it just seems to make things worse.  I cannot think of an example of a despot being killed that caused an improvement for the subjects.  Hitler would be the exception but I wonder if one of the assassination plots had succeeded how things would have been different.  Perhaps the Nazis would have sued for peace but would things have changed much for the people?  We will never know.

     

    I am currently reading a book on the first world war.  It is very depressing.  How could so may people in charge send so many lambs to the slaughter?  And to what end?

     

    The problem as I see it is for us, conservative, peace loving people.  How can we change things for the better?

     

    Regards

     

    David

     

    From: Ingrid Holzman

     

    I agree with you, David.  I have yet to see real proof that Bin Laden had anything to do with this.  Just because Bush wants to tell us that Bin Laden and Hussein were behind it, doesn't make it true.  Bin Laden and Hussein are/were horrible men, but I believe there are plenty of others out there hell bent on making the lives of U.S. citizens miserable.  I'm sure that these two men weren't exactly sad to see the tragedy on our land, probably had big grins, but I think we haven't enough tangible evidence to say Bin Laden was behind it.  Those involved may have been Laden wannabes, but that doesn't mean Bin Laden was the true mastermind.

     

    As for our right to carry guns to protect ourselves from a rogue government, I'm not in favor of this at all.  Guns get into the wrong hands and ultimately more innocent lives are lost as a result of them.  I have no issues with those who hunt for food to feed their families, but I do have issues with those who want a gun to protect themselves from potential harm.  I've seen too many kids get a hold of these guns because the supposed responsible adults negligence in keeping them locked up away from them.  

     

    Ingrid


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